It’s a very very weird view on this topic. I’m really not a fan of the “we can’t do anything so let’s sit and wait until everything gets worse” philosophy. I’d even recommend banning supporters of it everywhere in the FOSS world.
systemd is pretty bad but it was accepted because it was the best thing available at the time for the purpose and the community needed a standard. Now times are different.
Immutability is a big change that comes with its own issues. It makes a lot of sense in the equipment control space and some office space so it shouldn’t be just forgotten but simply accepting everything because it’s new and shiny will turn Linux into the modern society which accepted everything, beaten all the happiness lows and now refuses to admit its own fault.
It’s quite different to Pipewire which is another recently accepted standard. The transition had some issues but in the end it became fully compatible with stuff made for previous standards so nothing changed for the end user. With immutability such a scenario is impossible without losing all the advantages.
Also the FOSS community and especially projects don’t have quite the expertise in topics not directly related to programming so making good decisions is much harder for them. UX/UI is a very known example. Though here I’m talking about statistics and analysis.
I’ll keep it relatively brief for fearing unwieldiness.
I’m really not a fan of the “we can’t do anything so let’s sit and wait until everything gets worse” philosophy.
I agree. I hope you’re not implying I’m stating otherwise.
but it was accepted because it was the best thing available at the time for the purpose
More like Red Hat pushed it as the new standard and the rest followed suit. Distro maintainers are pragmatic and reasonable people. They’ll more often than not go for the path of least resistance.
A clear cut example of this would be how most distros don’t opt for btrfs in combination with time shift or snapper for snapshot functionality. So clearly, they are not really trying to offer the best solution. Instead they just try to push a system that’s as easy as they come for them to maintain and act accordingly.
the community needed a standard
And we already had one: SysVinit. Don’t try to rewrite history.
I initially started writing a reply on the remaining text but noticed that my writings were continued to be misunderstood. Therefore, I decided to retract any further reply and will choose to stop engaging in this conversation. Thank you for the engagement. However, I would like to offer a small piece of advice as a fellow Lemmy user:
In future conversations, whether they are debates or discussions, please try to understand what the other person is saying. Avoid creating a straw man argument. If needed, ask for clarifications to ensure you fully grasp their point. If you continue to have difficulty understanding, consider alternative approaches to gain a better understanding.
I don’t know how this conversation deteriorated, but I’ll let it be. Thank you once more. For the record, I don’t think this conversation will be productive moving forward. You seem to be focused on your own points without trying to understand the other side, which is fine. You don’t have to try to understand me; I may not be important. However, the ideas I try to convey might be, and it’s more important to consider and understand those.
It’s a very very weird view on this topic. I’m really not a fan of the “we can’t do anything so let’s sit and wait until everything gets worse” philosophy. I’d even recommend banning supporters of it everywhere in the FOSS world.
systemd is pretty bad but it was accepted because it was the best thing available at the time for the purpose and the community needed a standard. Now times are different.
Immutability is a big change that comes with its own issues. It makes a lot of sense in the equipment control space and some office space so it shouldn’t be just forgotten but simply accepting everything because it’s new and shiny will turn Linux into the modern society which accepted everything, beaten all the happiness lows and now refuses to admit its own fault.
It’s quite different to Pipewire which is another recently accepted standard. The transition had some issues but in the end it became fully compatible with stuff made for previous standards so nothing changed for the end user. With immutability such a scenario is impossible without losing all the advantages.
Also the FOSS community and especially projects don’t have quite the expertise in topics not directly related to programming so making good decisions is much harder for them. UX/UI is a very known example. Though here I’m talking about statistics and analysis.
I’ll keep it relatively brief for fearing unwieldiness.
I agree. I hope you’re not implying I’m stating otherwise.
More like Red Hat pushed it as the new standard and the rest followed suit. Distro maintainers are pragmatic and reasonable people. They’ll more often than not go for the path of least resistance.
A clear cut example of this would be how most distros don’t opt for btrfs in combination with time shift or snapper for snapshot functionality. So clearly, they are not really trying to offer the best solution. Instead they just try to push a system that’s as easy as they come for them to maintain and act accordingly.
And we already had one: SysVinit. Don’t try to rewrite history.
I initially started writing a reply on the remaining text but noticed that my writings were continued to be misunderstood. Therefore, I decided to retract any further reply and will choose to stop engaging in this conversation. Thank you for the engagement. However, I would like to offer a small piece of advice as a fellow Lemmy user:
In future conversations, whether they are debates or discussions, please try to understand what the other person is saying. Avoid creating a straw man argument. If needed, ask for clarifications to ensure you fully grasp their point. If you continue to have difficulty understanding, consider alternative approaches to gain a better understanding.
I don’t know how this conversation deteriorated, but I’ll let it be. Thank you once more. For the record, I don’t think this conversation will be productive moving forward. You seem to be focused on your own points without trying to understand the other side, which is fine. You don’t have to try to understand me; I may not be important. However, the ideas I try to convey might be, and it’s more important to consider and understand those.
Anyhow, I wish you the best.