Americans seem get really weird with the whole ancestry thing. There appears to be a desire to look into your family history and find something “exotic”, which basically seems to mean non-English - I imagine because that’s perceived as the ‘default’ ancestry, so-to-speak.
Honestly, who the fuck cares? What difference does it make? Nationalities aren’t Skyrim races. You don’t get special abilities. It makes no difference whether your ancestors were British/Irish/Spanish/French/whatever.
E: This is obviously not intended as a hateful statement, people. You have to understand that the rest of the world doesn’t care about this, so we’re confused when we look to the US and see them take it so seriously. We’re especially puzzled when Americans say “I’m Irish” because their great great great uncle bought a pint of Guiness in the 1870s. It’s an alien concept to the rest of the planet.
I worked with a French guy in Amsterdam. His parents were Portuguese, but he was born and raised in France. As far as he was concerned, he was French.
Contrariwise, I worked with an American woman in Virginia. Her grandparents were Irish, and she considered herself Irish, in spite of having been born and raised in America, and both of her parents having been born and raised in America.
It is a kind of fetish in America to hyphenate yourself. Irish-American. Cuban-American. And so on.
My own theory is that this is because America has no culture going back many generations, so people try to find one.
It’s even more strange when I see 3rd or 4th generation children from immigrants call themselves “Greek” or “Italian” and many times they’ve never even stepped inside those countries nor speak the language
Or even worse, they think that they do some typical Italian food when in fact, if you gave that food to Italians, they would be disgusted.
You’ve got me thinking of the episode of the Sopranos when they go to Italy to seal a deal with an old mob family and none of Tony’s guys want to eat the real Italian food
Exactly. Damn, The Sopranos were a good series.
I worked with a French guy in Amsterdam. His parents were Portuguese, but he was born and raised in France. As far as he was concerned, he was French.
As I understand it, that’s a French thing specifically, not just a non-USian thing. Like, if you’re a citizen of France, you’re expected to be French and assimilate into that culture, no matter whether you’re a native Parisian, you moved there from Algeria in the '60s, or you’re from some random other place and got citizenship via the French Foreign Legion. It’s a specific sort of national ideology that’s different from the American “melting pot” one.
My own theory is racism. Other countries in the Americas are not obsessed with ancestry. But bigotry against Scots, Irish, Italians, Africans, Chinese, Polish, etc. ran / run rampant.
Jeez, are there people the English didn’t hate? I wonder if the overall disdain for other people the English had in the 1800s wasn’t what was carried over to the new world and festered into this.
I mean you’ve basically hit the nail on the head except you’re misunderstanding one important thing. They aren’t ‘trying to find one’ they have one. Their culture IS that Irish or Cuban heritage and it wasn’t retconned from 23andme or ancestry.com - it comes from the story they were told about their identity by their parents from an early age.
But they’re not Irish or Cuban or Italian.
They’re Americans.
Emphasis on “heritage”.
It’s actually kjnd of the opposite: America has the dominant culture going back generations. It’s just that culture is very materialistic, so people try to find something deeper. That’s my theory anyway. Besides, most of us are immigrants and I think a lot of Americans want some connection to their place of origin.
Hm, maybe. I know that de Tocqueville found Americans to be obsessed with money in the 1830’s. Nothing seems to have changed in the past 200 years in that regard. 🤔
It’s also very much part of the 'murican narcissism culture, everyone has to be special in some way, no matter how shallow, made up or objectively irrelevant that is. I’ve known a few Americans IRL (I’m Swedish) at different periods of my life and no one else has ever come close to the level of mental gymnastics they do to feel special, cool, different etc. This really mirrors a lot of other things about the US, the classic image of early American towns with houses that have decorated facades but that’s all it is, paper-thin lies to mask both nothingness and shittyness. And man do they hate it when you try to push your finger through those shallow shields they build for themselves.
Kinda weird obsession when a big part of the population hates strangers so much.
And even British/Irish/Spanish/… doesn’t mean much as there was mixing for centuries
What’s with the negativity from you and the other comments?
I can tell you why Americans care. Because identity matters to people. The story of the melting pot is central to the American story as a nation of immigrants (even today) and central to individual identities. Thus, there is a lot of interest in backgrounds and geneology. If you ask the average American about their heritage you’re likely to get a surprising answer - so people talk about it more.
I get why it seems weird to many other cultures - if you ask the average French person (for example) their heritage they’ll say ‘French as far back as we can tell’.
The French person celebrates their identity through the lens of the French story, and the American does too, it’s just that the American story is the immigrant story.
I hope you do actually care. I hope in this era of rising nationalism and online hate enough of us value diversity of backgrounds and ancestries.
I’m not being hateful about it. I’m just puzzled as to why people think it makes any difference to their lives, or why they’d be disappointed in having the “wrong” ancestry.
I see a lot of Americans obsessed with it so much that it borders on being fetish-like, particularly when it comes to people claiming to be Irish or Italian, and it’s bizarre to me.
claiming to be Irish
I can speak to this phenomenon a bit. It’s part of what was drilled into us from our families. My father’s maternal grandparents were from Donegal, Ireland. Any time a single person from a Donegal family passed away in the entire city of Philadelphia, whether they were known to my family or not, my father, his brothers, and my grandmother were going to that wake to pay their respects. Once he became an adult, he became a member of the AoH, which is an Irish-American fraternal order. They’d keep some Irish customs alive (and being separated by the ocean, no doubt hallucinate some new ones). For people that are heavily invested in their families, it’s a way of feeling connected to your ancestors. I think leaving was rather traumatic for many people, so I think there is an element of mourning in the connection for some too.
I myself wouldn’t call myself Irish, but I know a great deal about Ireland and I share a deep appreciation for it despite being a Yankee. I get that it’s no doubt annoying when someone who knows nothing of the place they are claiming ownership of says they’re Irish or Italian to someone actually from Ireland or Italy, but at the end of the day I think it comes from a well intentioned place. If my family came to find we weren’t at all Irish by ancestry, I would definitely feel shocked as much of my upbringing was framed by that identity.
Calling people out as “fetish like” for identifying with…anything… is a bad look.
A person’s perception of themselves, their identity or self image isn’t for you to qualify as being good enough
Don’t try to compare an American claiming to de a different nationality just because they may have had an ancestor from XYZ to something like transphobia.
They are not the same. And rolling my eyes at the ‘plastic paddy’ crowd is not bigotry.
That is an absurd comparison to draw.
No not hateful, you’re just giving off a weird vibe about it. But you’re half way there actually, transform that energy into curiousity.
The two you picked especially have a real fascinating history and I’d encourage you to check it out because both of those groups had a tough time in their early immigration days. They aren’t fetishising at all - those communities had to stick together because they weren’t exactly welcome, and that mentality became ingrained. Over time, it was less necessary for survival so it transitioned into more of a cultural tradition.
I’m aware of the history. It’s still weird. You need to understand that nowhere else does this. It’s strange.
I understand why you’d think that because we’re all inundated with American culture no matter where we are in the western world. But that’s just not true. There are plenty of interesting groups who celebrate cultural identities not based on the country they live in.
A web search uncovered German-Brazilians and Italian-Argentines for me, I’m sure there are many many more.
We are in 2024 and they still use the word “race” to segregate the American population in several groups. So no surprise a DNA service could be so popular in the USA.
If they were American citizen and just that - without subdivision and the legal right to ask or use their gene, color skin or whatever_they_think_is_important_to_distinguish_themself - well a lot of issues and strange “behaviour” (aka racisme) would have disapeared.
Or at least decreased as nobody would have the legal tools and data to enforce it: gerrymanding, blaming a vote on a “community”, having your town split in “community” sectors and no shame at all to call it like that officially! Which others country put “chinatown” on their map?
As a teenager, I was shocked by this fact when visiting the USA 25 years ago. That and the fact i have found in a normal marketplace unprotected ammunition sold near the baby milk. “baby stuff, baby stuff, 9mm ammo… what!?!”
This DNA service is just the result of this global problem: the american society and its laws are still allowing passive racism.
So americans want to prove (to themself, to others?) via DNA results that they can’t be racist because they have a
black friendsorry : black DNA ancestors.Some will tell you: “ho it’s just for fun”. But is fun really the only motivation here?
And congrat to them as they don’t only expose themself (genetic data are priceless and should be protected at all costs) but also they expose all their children, children’s children, etc. These chidren probably wouldn’t have agreed to that if they were born.
I applaud your idealism, but the tricky thing is that if you stop measuring race, then you also stop being able to measure institutional racism. That’d be great for the closet racists who want to pretend that it doesn’t exist, but it does still exist and we really need to be able to quantify how well measures to stop it are actually working.
If you want to fix institutional racism in the US you need to fix social mobility because that’s the primary mechanism by which it gets perpetuated. For that you need educational status of the parents and their tax declarations, not skin colour. You need to stop financing schools from local taxes so primary and secondary education is as good or better in poorer areas instead of having quotas lowering standards for people who got a worse education because they live in the wrong neighbourhood. You need free tertiary education.
Focussing on race is a convenient way to ignore actually addressing the issue and instead continue to deepen societal rifts and to breed resentment among non-racialised disenfranchised people.
I totally agree with you here. These rules don’t make racism disappear but make it far more difficult to use it as a tool (passively or on-purpose).
At least if someone (anybody, including politician, company) use these terms, they will be immediatly stopped with more ease than your current system.
You still have a need for watcher (justice system, neutral party like associations) to keep track BUT nothing official can track your race in any documents at all level. That include the resume of an employe or even a customers service listing. You will have immediate sanction and bad PR for the company/individual if you do that.
Same for your religion or your political party by the way. They are too much officialy tracked and categorized!
Racism will always exists unfortunately but all these laws can reduce the global impact on the population. And put on shame the one using it as discriminative element.
A large number of Americans generally seem to grow up with a main character complex thanks to all the individualist & jingoist propaganda people get bombarded with over there.
The search for something “exotic” as you put it is just an ego-driven search for the piece of evidence that they are, in fact, more special and unique than everyone else.
…English is not the “default” ancestry for Americans. I think I know one dude from Michigan who has English heritage. Most folks I’d know have blood from Poland, Ireland, Italy and Germany. It varies regionally.
As far as white/Caucasian Americans, I’d bet money it’s Germanic ancestry.
I recall reading that at one point in the 19th century, 52% of American newspapers were printed in German. And, you still find towns with German names from coast to coast. Anaheim California, Hamburg Minnesota, Berlin New Hampshire.
If you’re near Eastern Indiana, check out Oldenburg.
Im actually in Ireland, but I grew up in western PA. There is a Deutschestown in north Pittsburgh, and a few breweries have faux bierhalles like Penn Brewery for example. Max’s Alleghenney Tavern in Pgh is a ‘German Restaurant’ as well, but they do “quirky german” things like serve beer in jars, which is not done in Germany at all…
anyway, genetically, Im half polish half irish, but there were shit tons of italians everywhere also. plenty of krauts in my schools though, now that im old enough to decipher their last names’ ethnic origins. some scandanavians also
deleted by creator
thank you for the actually
I’m aware. There’s an absolutely huge amount of Germanic-descended people, for example. That’s why I spoke of it being the ‘perceived’ default.
haha yeah ok I hear you, Ive just never perceived this or known that anyone else did, but maybe they do and I just didnt know
You speak for yourself. As an Englishman I get 5% water resistance and +2 charisma when dealing with non-Europeans.
You lose that buff two weeks after acclimitizing to another country, and the perceived extra charisma is actually people nervously smiling around you to mask their limited english (half the language is just obscure idioms)
One guy writes an article. literally just one dude.
the comments: “AMERICANS ARE WEIRD AF. ALL AMERICANS DO THIS AND FEEL THIS WAY.”
It’s not just him. The “I’m Irish/Italian” crowd is a widely known-about American thing.
I didn’t mean to offend you. Relax. I never said all Americans do it, you don’t need to come up with some reactionary strawman just because you took my comment to heart.
America is a lot of people from different places settling in one continent. lots of people care about what their family history is. I’m not sure what’s weird about that.
there’s a lot of people with bloodlines from different parts of the world in every country. it means something to some people. not everyone, but quite a few.
that particular phenomenon is everywhere.
No, it really isn’t much of a thing for the rest of the world. You’d never see someone from, I dunno, Poland saying they’re Irish because 23andMe says they’re 2% Irish.
Nationalities aren’t Skyrim races. You don’t get special abilities.
“It wasn’t until I learned that I was 90% British that it all made sense… my inhuman ability to queue for hours, my fastidiousness surrounding permits, and hatred for the French… I knew I was special, but I never imagined how special.”
The rest of the world has no ability to understand, because they’ve been in the same place for 700 generations.
You say that, but the luck stat is entirely dependent on it.
Europeans: haha you guys have no history!
Also Europeans: haha you’re curious where your family emigrated from! Losers!
Those two sentences are not in contradiction. USA’s history has been moved to casinos. Knowing which language your ancestors spoke, when you won’t bother learning it, has nothing to do with it.
Some people are just looking for a story. I don’t think there’s need to view it so pessimistically. I’m lucky to have grown up with family, but people like my grandparents didn’t. You got traded off as a farm hand at the age of 5, or dropped off on the church steps. Seems a very human thing to want clues where you came from, and at the time they couldn’t conceive of the black mirror shit the world is now.
It actually does make a very important difference. You might be eligible for citizenship in those countries.
True, although that would only go as far back as parents or grandparents. And a PDF from 23andMe saying you’re 8% French certainly wouldn’t be usable grounds to claiming citizenship.
Weird how “a nation of immigrants” wants to know where they are from.
its weird how people think this is private info when you literally broadcast it to the world with every breath and every hair you shed in any physical place you have ever existed.
So how much randomly-dropped DNA have you analyzed recently?
ive been watching the speed at which dna can be analyzed compared with the authorities that want to analyze it, such as airports.
its not out of scope to imagine that at some point they will just start accumulating large datasets from public places.
unlike publicly cracked password datasets, its not like we can just change our dna. its only a matter of time until its all accumulated into a single database most of us will be part of and those that arent will be easily triangulated with the natural relational format of the data.
if anyone really wanted your dna specifically, it could probably be easily obtained through your garbage, which in the US has zero expectation of privacy.
There’s something hilarious about the author’s disappointment to find out they’re British, and nothing else.
Can’t say I blame them though.
I read the headline and went, “…I mean, what were you expecting?”
Title is misleading, FTA:
Confirmation that I am 63% British and Irish, 17% Danish and otherwise “broadly north-western European”. I felt a resounding ambivalence about the results, including some disappointment that I had not discovered a newfound heritage – a piece of information that would give my identity new dimension.
But also:
My father’s side of the family is meticulous about tracking our ancestry, with records that hold the name of the exact small village in Ireland our ancestors hail from.
Those results often can’t narrow down to exact countries so it says he’s 63% British and Irish. Seeing as his fathers family has records of being from a small Irish town it’s likely he’s more Irish that British, not that it means anything if you’re actually American anyway.
I did it over 15 years ago, but for health information before the FDA nuked that. (Although you can still run the raw data through a third party program)
I’m pretty sure I already uploaded myself to at least one open source database, so I don’t see any reason to worry that much.
Like honestly, I’d rather be open sourced than sold as proprietary data haha
In either case the actors to worry about (whatever they might be) gets access, in the latter case it might additionally do some good.
The problem is when your data can be connected to you. If you just share it anonymously, it will likely help nobody, except that everyone now knows that some person in the world has this DNA. And has money to get it sequenced.
I had in some ways the opposite 23&Me experience and goals. My parents told me growing up that I had some small native ancestry. This is actually a common myth many Americans have either been told or somehow deluded themselves into believing.
So I did the DNA testing (which I now regret from all the obvious enshittification and privacy reasons) to prove that my ancestry was boring and predictable. Which it was, no indigenous ancestry, just the expected European countries that my great grandparents came from.
They also do a lot of nice health screening things and I think that’s probably the much more valuable aspect of it. It really is very American that people are so much more concerned with what DNA says about one’s race or ethnicity than about their health and wellbeing.
I’m worried about insurance companies getting it and changing rates/services based on my DNA.
I’ve got to admit, I’ve wanted to do one of those tests just because my family is such a mix of “lol we don’t know.” Like, no really, what IS my maternal grandma? She does not look like the rest of her family and had a different family name from her siblings. And ok really, where DID my paternal great-grandmother who lied about her race so she could marry my great-grandfather back when “miscegenation” was illegal, come from? And WAS that great-grandpa biracial himself?
There’s a reason I call myself an ethnic Rorschach test, and I’d love to know why it is I am. But the rest of my family is against the idea of finding out because “it doesn’t matter” plus who knows how just data might be used one day.
You can just do the test in secret, I guess. Just don’t tell anyone. But yeah, costs money of course.
Maybe if I swab my mouth and send it off to a company, I’ll finally be interesting and people will like me.
puts letter down
…maybe not.
Honestly I’ve never gotten the desire to do one of these things. You give away arguably the most uniquely valuable and private part of yourself to this company (or companies like it) to do god knows what with in exchange for these results that are (IMO) ultimately just unnecessary trivia about yourself.
Oh, don’t worry. If you hadn’t given it to them, one or ten of your fucking rellies did anyway and had no clue of the implications either.
I want to upvote this, but … Why did you have to shorten “relatives”?
Maybe Australian?
I love how they just smash “-ies” onto any word. I started using “sunnies” for sunglasses after hanging out with a few aussies.
Maybe.
I’m only familiar with the term “BSc” from Red Dwarf, wherein it’s eventually revealed to mean “bronze swimming certificate”; however, from the context of the joke in the novel (and I think the show, don’t remember for sure), I assume it has some more impressive meaning in other uses.
Given the origins of that series, I was guessing British, but that doesn’t limit it much. My cultural ignorance is preventing me from forming a meaningful theory.
edit: I’m sorry, I thought this was a response to another comment I made, making my response 100% irrelevant. Please feel free to disregard.
edit 2: Though I guess the last line of my unedited comment still applies.
Bachelor of Science, however SSC doesn’t have a different meaning that I’m aware of.
Thank you for the information!
Also, I infer from your response that you also remember that part of Red Dwarf, which is awesome.
I like it
This only tells you about your very recent ancestry, but go back enough generations are you are descended from everyone alive at the time who still has living decendants, just like everyone else.
We’re all Ethiopian
All of us are neandthal too, and decendants of various ancient celebrities as well as all the forgotten commoners.
I refuse to do it because I’m a twin. We both agree that it’s shitty if one of us does it because then the other is forced into it basically, being identical.
Also our dad was a piece of cheating shit so we don’t ever want to know about that possibility.
That would indicate your mom cheated as well? Not sure exactly what your dad cheating has to do with your DNA. Wouldn’t it be better to find out he wasn’t your dad if he was so shitty?
They don’t want to find other siblings
How does that work? The lab puts you in contact with people they know share your DNA?
If you choose to opt in and participate in DNA Relatives, other customers that have also elected to participate in this feature will be able to view the following information about you:
Your DNA Relatives display name
How recently you logged into your account
Your relationship labels (masculine, feminine, neutral)
Your predicted relationship and percentage of DNA shared with your matches
Your location (optional)
Ancestor birth locations and family names (optional)
Your profile picture (optional)
Your birth year (optional)
A link to your Family Tree (optional)
Anything you have added to the “Introduce yourself!” Section (optional)
We do not want to find my father’s illegitimate children. He was our father, as our mother never cheated.
our mother never cheated.
That you know of, or care to know of. To be fair that’s a better reason to not do it. You know your dad is a piece of shit apparently, your mom you have a good image of, and no benefit to the image being tarnished after it matters.
That you know of, or care to know of.
Yes, but also who cares. No need to point out that “technically there’s always a chance” because you can do that for basically anything.
I’m very sorry I didn’t think of this context. I wasn’t being daft intentionally, it just didn’t occur to me when I was trying to figure out the situation
I can understand now. Thank you for sharing and gently explaining the situation
(I’m also very, very sorry to have implied your mother had cheated in that scenario. I did not mean to cast shade on her character)
You are much more polite than the person who was much more condescending about my mother. It’s fine.
I know for facts my mother never cheated. Mother is at an age I have increasing access to medical records of previous…attempts at children. Which lines up entirely with things my father talked about, and how delighted they were when we were born. Also, my father, for his faults, absolutely could spot another cheater at 50 paces and knew my mother did not.
Also she was like. The only person at home, working in education with long hours and then taking care of us, so if she did cheat, like. Damn, she was really finding the time somehow taking care of terrible twins.
I am a technology journalist – I like to think I am thoughtful about what data I share with corporations.
My brother in Christ, if you are a tech journalist then you, out of all people, should know not to give ANY data to corporations. That is a massive fuckup regarding your job.
they’ve mostly got your genetics anyways if your brother did it
Dare I say it?
Man did you look in the mirror? 😂
I haven’t found an article yet that can actually articulate the problem with 23 and me right now, and actually did research into it or even read the terms and service. The problem with 23 and me is that they are not maximizing the share holder value of the data they are sitting on. The CEO wants to keep the company in line with the principals they were founded on which is to protect the privacy and data of their customers, while using opt in studies to build data sets that can be studied or sold.
Investors want to enshittify the company, and have been organizing a campaign against to company to try to drive it into liquidation to buy the data, even though the company is profitable. I wouldn’t be surprised is they are funding these weekly omfg 23 and me bad articles.
That juicy data is going to get bought up by the health insurance industry. I would be surprised if they aren’t part of the push to force them to sell the data.
Recreational DNA testing eventually led to discovering that I had never before met my biological father. Mom got it wrong. I met him and his family this summer finally. I am slightly irritated that my last name (and my child’s) is now kind of meaningless, and it’s too much of a hassle to change it.
Paternity testing should be done for every child. The child and father should have the same certainty that mothers have.
